OHV Responses whiteknight.ca

Here are some E-mail responses from site visitors to the "Open letter" of March 12/2002

This is something that will happen over and over again, until there is something else to complain about. Remember a few years ago there was a concern with the amount of cattle in the country. It was all about the "methane gas" from the cows was hurting the ozone layer. Somehow I don't think they bothered to look in the oil patch or logging areas though. These are supposed to be checked all the time and monitored for damage. Funny I remember coming out onto the highway covered in mud. I have seen ruts left by pulling rigs in that were at least 18" deep and about 12" wide. They are trying to tell us that we damage the environment!! The oil and logging industries bring in a lot of money into this wonderful province, off roading doesn't. As long as there is money and people to complain there will always be a problem. Education is a great start to trying downgrade this problem bu

Lets all make sure we try to clean up our camps and leave it like we were never there.

Kronic ORW

I just read your open letter, and I couldn't agree more. We had our 'dunes trail' closed a few years ago due to people using it irresponsibly, burning cars, wild parties all contributed to the trail being closed to trucks. It is only open to atvs and horse riders. I recently approached the county with a proposal to use it for club purposes only (O.R.W.) but I might as well beat a dead horse, even if we used it once a month for 2 days, stay on the main trails and help with trail clean ups they still didn't want anything to do with us. They have been having a problem with people trespassing and going in restricted areas, but they don't want to designate an area for the trucks to go, so they are not only making things worse but also contradicting themselves by pushing everyone to other protected lands. My group of wheelers go in places we are allowed or at least where Fish & Wildlife don't care if we use the area, but it would be nice if we could work together to get a designated area and keep everyone happy. Well this is my rant, thanks. Myron (O.R.W. mud freak)

I hope I can do the same when I get a bit older. Right now I'm seventeen and struggling through my high school and college years. I owned a 1985 Bronco only a year ago but financial difficulties forced me to sell my baby. I now own a 1977 Suburban with a 305 V8 (weird having that small motor in such a big truck) and SM465 tranny. I'm undecided as to whether or not I should keep it or find something more suitable to my offroading needs. I'm a rock crawler at heart, and I really would prefer something smaller but still fullsize like my good ol' Bronco was. I'll probably end up selling the 'Burban later on, even though it's an excellent runner.

hello,
How is everybody doing, i was checking out your site and read you'er letter that u got. i bet i am kinda late for a idea, but i will throw one in anyways befor the winter snow kicks in should rent like a D6 dozer and groom the trails. so ever spring there is a smooth start for the tail. oh yea by the way i lub your vids and website. hope to have a truck like that soon, building a 86 bronco II (yes i know its a ford and blah) but i am droping full size axles and 302 v8 to start with. welp thats all and i hope your battle with the gov goes
good.

I agree 100%. Here in Illinois, USA, there are no OHV area's. Anywhere to spend time off road is private owned land or trespassing. Good to see that someone out there is using whatever influence they can to help keep areas open for us to enjoy our sport. Keep on Muddin!

hey,

just came across your site and i have to say i'm very inspired - whole bunch
of ideas for my next vehicle once i get through with my '85 CJ ;)

what's with the gov'ts trying to shut the trails down? they're contemplating
that here in Ontario too - and the snowmobilers are against us too!! keep up
the fight for education and everyone will be better off.

thanks for the site and all the info and pix, keep up the good work.

Adam

I agree fully, we're out here in Saskatchewan and have much the same
problem. We are small enough though that we haven't attracted any attention.
But as you said, it is all in the mind of the driver as to how a vehicle is
used. I've worked hard on my truck, to fix leaks, drips, possible blow outs
and use it for strictly off road.

It is sad that the government would publicly accuse a small percentage of
people for 'destroying' natural trails, landscape, and waterways. When most
of the time the trails are the roads leading into logging camps, clear cut
areas, and mines. While allowing people driving daily on city streets, and
highways in vehicles that are rusted out, dripping, and leak enough exhaust
to make your eyes water in the vehicle behind. And yet We're the one's
causing the stress on the environment.

If the government would put a little money aside to promote proper driving,
and trails where people could openly drive there vehicles. Have maybe a
vehicle inspection, but don't get anally retentive about it, look for leaks,
breaks, some safety depending on the size of the vehicle. After all if I
could afford to drive a Land Rover or a Hummer, I probably wouldn't have
time to go off roading. But everyone has to take things to the extreme, if
it's got a leak, then they've destroyed all the tree's for miles. Or if they
spin there tires, everybody does. Promote it, encourage it, and people will
respect it. I can drive a car, that doesn't mean I can drive the Indy, and
it doesn't mean I'm going to get into street racing either.

First of educate people in environment and general vehicle maintenance.
Second, setup land and trails designated to the use of Off road vehicles.
Third get people interested in the cleanup of the trails.

If you build it, they will come, they will clean and they will maintain..
That way they can come again..

Good luck in the fight, and we're all behind you in it.

Just another off roader.

After all, a 44" spare isn't just a waist line anymore..

Steve..

http://ccr4x4.ath.cx
soon to be...
http://www.ccr4x4.com

Yes I said privilege, to go out and wheel is a privilege not a right. Any tom dick and harry with the cash can buy and build a truck and come out. Only responsible people deserve to. The same rules need to apply to all users of the crown lands. They should not have to be written in stone. Leave the trails clean, and in as good of shape as conditions allow. Like you said if it is rainy the trails will get cut up solely due to traffic. Big units used properly will not cut up trails. Even stock units that stop and use there equipment to get out- winch, come along or even jackall in a pinch- will due little or no damage. Any unit, big or small spinning it's tires will cut a trail to ribbons in no time. If everybody is going to get on a soapbox against us then we need to get on one as well.

Your supporter and fellow offroader

Your gov. doesn't have a clue on what tears up trails. You are right ,the teaching of the proper use of trails is what should be done, not dumping the shit on people w/ big motors and tires. EDUCATION IS THE KEY!!!!!!!

Theresa,

I'd like to firstly congratulate you on a killer site. Your rig looks
totally awesome, and those are some sweet pics of it.

It seems like every hobby I get into, a government and a bunch of
bleeding heart whiners wants to take it away from me. Especially after I
start sinking huge amounts of cash into them. Apart from 4x4s, I'm a
target shooter. We all know the crap that's going on there, so I won't
talk about it. Now come the 4x4 issues. I have acquaintances (by no
means are these people friends of mine) who call me the root of all
evils. I eat red meat, I own firearms, and I drive a 4x4. I ask them
what's so bad about it, and they start skirting the question. That's
when I tell them that opinions are like @$$holes. Everyone has one. I
made a conscious decision to own guns and drive 4x4s. It's my life, and
it's my money. I worked damn hard for what I have. Let me enjoy my stuff
how I see fit. So far, my rig is a stock '88 S10 Blazer 4x4 with a 4.3l
V6. I took it out on a trails course last weekend and spent more time
stuck than unstuck. No one was worried because said trials course was
there for the purpose of getting chewed up, and I knew I wasn't going to
be spinning around on the trail that afternoon. I know the limitations
of my ride, and didn't want to destroy the trail or my truck trying to
do stuff I couldn't handle. That's called common sense, something the
government lacks. Now, when I get the lift done on my truck so I can fit
some bigger tires (bigger tires = less air pressure = more traction =
less spin, right?) and of course install some lockers, I'll probably
tune the engine to get every last bit of torque out of it that I can
get. I also don't have to worry about spinning tires when I take off
from a dead stop either. I don't have to shift gears or anything because
of the automatic tranny (I saw lots of guys doing that in their 5 speed
equipped trucks) that came stock with the truck.

Another good thing: The 4x4 club I'm joining (just waiting on the
ratification of my application) does a fair bit of trail maintenance.
Good thing, yes? I thought it was. The last thing I want to do is be one
of those jackass off roaders who tears up the place, gets corked, and
tears it up some more then leaves all his crap behind. Not a good thing
to do. I learned to respect the land by learning to live off it.

I've spent many a night out with my friends talking over beers and
plates of wings about things. I've figured out why the politicos always
side with the environmental terrorists, animal rights terrorists and
every other bleeding heart type out there: They're the loudest. It's
that whole "Squeaky wheel gets the grease" theory. I think it's our turn
to get loud. We should band together with every other land user group
out there, from Avers to Horseback Riders to Mountain Bikers to Hikers,
to Off Road Motorcycle Riders, and every other 4x4 group out there. Lets
all get loud. Let's all scream about how they're taking away our trails.
Horses & ATVs can chew up a trail just as much if not more than a 4x4
with big soft tires. I've ridden horse trails on a mountain bike as a
teenager and found that they were worse off than a mountain bike trail.
Not to mention the mess the animals can leave as they go. Let's make
some noise. Because as it stands, if we stay quiet, they're going to
legislate us away, and then we'll all become electric car driving rats
sitting at some computer terminal because that's what they've socially
re-engineered us for.

Keep up the killer site, sweet rig and the good work.

Pete Z. aka: Grizz Axxemann

PS: Keep the rubber side down!

"They're not talking about MY trails, why should I care?" How I hate that attitude!!!
One of the shared resources that UFWDA tries to make available is the vast recreational community. It's fairly common to see an email on one of the local club lists from UFWDA or Blue Ribbon advising of a comment period for a proposed rule somewhere. I know that it's a pain to respond to some of them and I question sometimes just how effective we are but I figure that every additional body saying "I am a responsible off highway driver and I want MY land available" helps.
Lord knows those who are labeling themselves as protectors of the planet have an active machine spewing out their tons of questionable science and public opinion.
The Uwharrie National Forest, where the Bash is held, is the exception rather than the rule in this country. A forest that actually encourages OHV use! Most of the others tolerate us, but Uwharrie encourages it.
I'll stop before I get into full blown rant mode by asking everyone who reads this to remember that every time one trail gets closed it affects you. If for no other reason than it makes the trails more crowded and a target for closure because it's over used!

This particular issue is ongoing on both sides of the border (and more). On any given day, you can find news stories of some challenge in the US courts or administrative settings regarding closures.
This is one of the reasons for organizations such as United Four Wheel Drive Association www.ufwda.org (An international organization, by the way) and the Blue Ribbon Coalition www.sharetrails.org
You might be able to get some assistance from either organization in mobilizing their membership on your behalf or in other ways. Check them out.
Keep us posted

This appears to be the status quo with both of our Provincial Governments lately Theresa. While The Alberta Government appears to use "Trail Abuse" as their reason for closures, we in B.C. are against a different problem, cutbacks, and the notion of closing a number of FSR's as well as Rec sites. As well as the option to allow Lumber companies to toll their FSR's. Scary thought... However, without going off topic, I definitely agree with you regarding the need for education, and the "Tread Lightly" motto. This same predicament appears to be a growing concern for a few areas in B.C. Many of us have decided to educate our government with respect to Responsible Off road Access Development (R.O.A.D.) Seriously, this may sound silly to most of us, but there are also plenty of us who don't respect off road accessibility either, giving the good guys, like Whitenight, the bum rap. Anyways, I will definitely stay in touch with respect to this issue. Perhaps we can work together and turn some political as well as environmental thinking around.

White Knight this is the White Knight from the USA ,

I like you ,manage to do my wheeling in sponsored areas, or on private property, either place I endeavor to maintain some decorum when wheeling. Normally a off-road trip, returns with more thrash than I generate while there. In Texas I’m a member of TMTC (Texas Motorized Trail Coalition) Paying members raise money to purchase tracks of land that, are then used for all sorts of ORV usage, ATV/Motorcycles/OHV/Mountain bikes.

One of my favorites is Barnwell Mt, Gilmer Texas . The area was a mine and oil exploration area as I was told, now how much damage did those people do to the environment?.... We (the members) cut our own trails, map them and list them as to what vehicles are safe to use on those trails, and maintain upkeep on said trails..I.E. if the trails are trashed we clean them, if erosion starts to become a problem its corrected. I try and keep my rig where it leaks no fluids, use enviro/safe antifreeze. I would challenge the “greenies” to maintain their trails in the same manner. I hope than you can keep ORV usage in your area up and active. It’s a shame when Government listens to the minorities whom scream the loudest, and not commonsense. However I believe in your Grand Country correct me if I’m wrong…. bleeding heart liberalism is the main stream and I wish you luck in your battle. Republican and Redneck and proud of it!!!!

God Bless you and yours

White Knight , Ft Worth , Texas

First, I have to say those environmental people suck. They have no knowledge of what us four wheelers do. They say the answer to all trail problems is to ban modified trucks from the trails because they destroy everything. They need to ban the idiots that think they can take a stock truck across a mud hole without getting stuck. Not that I am against the environment or anything like that because we should keep our world clean. If the tree huggers want to complain to somebody about mistreating the environment, they should complain to the companies who dump millions of tons of toxic waste in our water, not a four wheeler who pulls up a clump of grass with his/her tires. Thanks for listening.

Let me start out by saying this is bull . They don't even give a crap about our hobby .I tell you what, there's a lot more stuff going on than us wheeling . Like what happened on 911. I think they need to think about what to do about that. I've done my share of river/trail clean ups . I don't throw trash out my window and you're right about the mod trucks walking over trails ,not spinning the crap out of their tires They need to ban out stock trucks .If they would just let us have our fun .What if we took away their hobbies ? They wouldn't like it very much would they.? We're actually helping pay their paychecks by buying gas and supplies to wheel with. Where I live they're trying to ban our trails. I'm trying to get them not to.
Well I'm sorry if this letter offended any one its just bull crap .

I live in Toronto where most of our 4x4'n is within a few hours away. However, there is the infamous "Wood Side" conservation area which in my opinion, has been pretty much nothing but a 4x4 park for the last 25 yrs. The park hasn't changed much despite our "big trucks tearing up the land" . It is VERY clean. NO bottles out the window and NO junk food wrappers out the window. Our crew refuses to take others who have unreliable, beaten vehicles because we don't want our park infested with wrecks. We continue to be fined and hassled and the last year we have stayed away from "Wood Side" to let things quiet down.

The last time I was at the Bolton Dump (closest town) I noticed two people, one being the dump attendant, shoveling a large trailer full of CLEAN FILL INTO THE DUMPSTER !!!!!!! Think about that for a minute. Fill up our landfill sites with CLEAN fill, but leave "SUPPOSED EROSION" to take care of itself. Something's not right with this picture. This all doesn't make sense to me.

And while we're on the subject of logging roads and OHV areas, has any one who objects to our sport actually visited and walked through a clear-cut recently ? Did they notice there is enough waste (cut trees that are left behind for whatever reason) at each clear-cut to heat my house for the next 10 yrs ???

I could go on and on and on but there isn't enough time in a day to say what I have to say

I just read your editorial on land usage in your region and I have to say that it is ridiculous! To all the bonifide tree huggers out there I think they should get their facts straight before they start condemning off road websites for their content. I agree with you about smaller tires doing the most damage, it's a given that 44's and big blocks don't' have to work to get through the mud etc. Even my truck with 34's and a small block doesn't have to work as hard as a 4 or 6 cylinder Jeep or truck. I think all these classic whiners should really go out with you and your club to see exactly what is entailed in off roading and to see what kind of work you and your club have done, I don't think they have any concept.

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Well I like to think of myself as a regular to the site. I see the predicament you have been thrown into. Unfairly thrown into I might add. I think the government is overstepping it's bounds and using your sight as a martyr, unfortunate as it is some of your favorite memories and experiences now endanger your entire hobby structure and perhaps your way of life.

Running around my city are annoying little 4 bangers with exhaust tips bigger then the cylinder bores making all kinds of unnecessary noise, they have almost single handedly ruined the decades old tradition of "Sunday Night Cruise". It's a terrible shame when these few cause enough havoc to cause event that are supposed to be open and enjoyed by all to be shut down. The main body of "jacked-up" trucks running around are all people with too much money and no enthusiasm for the sport, causing cops to get tougher with their measuring tapes, and residence to loose a lot of patience. I fear that this is a pre-tense for the disappearance of the rigs. Especially for those of us that actually enjoy four wheeling and can't afford 2 or more vehicles. But after the rigs are abolished, what's stopping the OHV's from being closed? And the more the government pushes on all fronts, the more ground they do win, because of this annoyance problem it's difficult to even get people to listen when you defend yourself from such unjust actions.

Having OHV areas so close to your home is a wonderful convenience, one that I don't have the luxury of, and I wonder how long will it take to destroy the entire sport. In fact I had already made plans to come up and experience the park for myself this May long, it's a long trip but I felt it would be worth it. Perhaps it'll be the only time I get to do so, obviously I can't be certain at this point. And I am, especially at this age, tired of being told what to do/not do, where/where not to go, right and wrong. I am a human and I have the fundamental ability to think. Despite what the "researchers" think I know better then to follow blindly and I know they are LYING!! So to the government I scoff! I may be one young man but I will fight to the end to defend what brings a smile to my heart.

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